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Mick Tsikas/AAP Politics with Michelle Grattan: Sussan Ley on Barnaby’s defection and how the environment law deal ‘fell apart’ Published: November 27, 2025 9.52am GMT Michelle Grattan, University of Canberra

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Michelle Grattan
Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra

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Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.

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https://doi.org/10.64628/AA.9s6349xfw

https://theconversation.com/politics-with-michelle-grattan-sussan-ley-on-barnabys-defection-and-how-the-environment-law-deal-fell-apart-270801 https://theconversation.com/politics-with-michelle-grattan-sussan-ley-on-barnabys-defection-and-how-the-environment-law-deal-fell-apart-270801 Link copied Share article

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Opposition Leader Sussan Ley has had a rugged start as leader. With Liberal rivals Angus Taylor and Andrew Hastie circling for her position, Ley needs to not only survive, but rebuild her party from its historic lows in the polls.

Just hours after Labor announced a new deal with the Greens to pass new environment laws, and former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce quit his party and the Coalition, Ley joined us on the podcast.

On Joyce’s defection to become an independent MP and potentially join One Nation, Ley said she would leave the commentary to others.

Barnaby, while being a friend of mine – has been for many years, we’re both long-term colleagues in the parliament – is a free agent when it comes to why he’s leaving the Nationals, what he’s going to do next.

These are all matters for him I wouldn’t commentate on. And I don’t sit in the Nationals’ party room. So I really can’t comment on what goes on there, or what any of the thinking might be right now.

With respect to our coalition with the Nationals, I do want to say this: that we are stronger together, the Liberals and Nationals. I firmly believe that, because together we can fight this Labor government as the non-Labor parties of opposition.

On Thursday morning, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese announced his government had struck with the Greens to pass new environment laws.

Ley says the Opposition had been negotiating with the government into early Thursday morning – until “that fell apart” and the deal with the Greens was announced.

At nine o'clock [Wednesday] night, I was talking to Senator [Jonno] Duniam and the Shadow Minister of Environment Angie Bell, and they were showing me a table with where we had got to with seven key requests around amendments and how the conversation was going […] and they had early conversations very early this morning.

[…] I honestly think there wasn’t an intention to make it work with us. The simple reason for that is there isn’t a rule that says this has to be completed today. There’s actually a committee process that was stretching into next year, into March, in fact.

[…] I think [this was] very rushed. And I’m very doubtful how this is actually going to achieve what the prime minister has said it will around either protecting the environment, but more importantly speeding up approvals processes.

On Ley’s previous support for a net zero emissions target for 2050 compared to her party’s policy now, Ley said that changing circumstances led her to change her view.

I’m 100% committed to the policy that I’m talking about today.

I looked at the circumstances we’re facing, the evidence about what the transition to a long-term target of net zero has meant for the economy and the country and for households, and realised that we are totally on the wrong track.

So in expressing views about net zero in the past, I would see them through the prism of I care about climate change, I care about reducing emissions. I want Australia to play its part. I meant that then, I mean that now.

This week, the latest Australian Election Study revealed voters ranked Labor ahead of the Coalition as the preferred party on economic management and taxation for the first time.

Asked about the Coalition’s chances of winning at the next election, Ley said she doesn’t accept it will take two elections to get back to government:

Not at all. The role of opposition is to hold the government to account, to fight for what we believe in, to develop that policy offering and to take it forward. And I think this is a terrible government. I don’t think this government deserves to win the next election.

There is no agenda. There is no ambition for Australians. And what has been delivered this year […] is higher power prices, higher inflation and […] a really challenging budget bottom line for individual households, with the prospect of higher interest rates next year. So higher cost of living sums all that up and families are hurting.

On attracting more women to the party, Ley congratulated both of the newly-elected Liberal leaders in Victoria in New South Wales. But she said she remains “agnostic” about how the party attracts more women.

I just want to recognise those outstanding female leaders: Jess Wilson in Victoria, Kellie Sloane in New South Wales, and of course we have the chief minister of the Northern Territory, Lia Finocchiaro. And they are shining examples for Liberal leadership across this country at a state and territory level.

[…] As I’ve mentioned before, the role of candidates and selection is one that individual divisions make. We don’t do it from the federal organisational level, nor should we.

We’ve got [Senator] James McGrath doing a longer-term review of how we make the Liberal Party – like many organisations – more relevant to the job that we want to do for Australians and the role that people can play in that if they join us as members.

[…] I’m agnostic about how we achieve more women. But we must get there.